Question about "De tous les mensonges que tu as dit, aucun n'est crédible"

JohnC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Question about "De tous les mensonges que tu as dit, aucun n'est crédible"

Translated as: "Out of all the lies you told, none is believable."

Is this French example used simply to illustrate French grammar?

Because as a statement of logic, the statement is nonsense.  The second half of the statement is superfluous. Lies are ipso facto not credible (that is the nature of a lie). So of course 100% of the time they are not credible.

As an analogy, no one would say: "Out of all the green marbles you gave me, none is orange."

If instead you said: "Out of all the statements you told, none is believable" (or correct in French: "De tous les choses que tu as dit, aucun n'est crédible"?) or "Out of all the marbles you gave me, none is orange", these full sentences have logical meaning.

Asked 6 months ago
AlanC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor Correct answer

"Believable" is a hypothetical judgement - could a reasonable person believe it. It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not, or whether you know it's untrue, the question is whether it's plausible. 

ChrisC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Well, to me this statement is logically OK. To be credible doesn't mean to be true. So a lie can be credible and still be a lie.

JohnC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Yes, I agree. If we have no foreknowledge of the lie.

But here the speaker knows (i.e., has foreknowledge that) all the statements are lies, as s/he says: "Out of all the lies you told, none is believable." 

Statements (the truth or falsity of which have not been verified or are unknown) are credible.

Lies when known to be lies are never credible. It's a logical impossibility.

If for some cultural language reason you wish to tell me this sentence in French is acceptable I will accept your assertion. But if instead you are insisting that, at least with respect to the English, it's logical, I am sorry but you are wrong.

AlanC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

I might know that what you have said is a lie, but that doesn't mean that everyone knows. I can still have an opinion as to whether the lie is believable to other people.

JohnC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Yes, true, but the context here does not readily lend itself to the possibility of the presence of other people.

The speaker says "you" so is obviously speaking only to the person(s) who told the lies.

The key point here is that the speaker has foreknowledge of the lies. Once foreknowledge is introduced the statement is not logical.

If instead the speaker said: "Out of all the lies you told, none was ever believable," the context changes. Now the speaker is indicating two things, albeit vaguely: 1) there was a point in time when the lies may not have been known to be lies and appeared credible and 2) all statements are now known to be lies.

But I'm sure Lawless French wants to provide it's students with simple, logical grammar points. Not examples that contain some abstract or tortured meaning

Question about "De tous les mensonges que tu as dit, aucun n'est crédible"

Translated as: "Out of all the lies you told, none is believable."

Is this French example used simply to illustrate French grammar?

Because as a statement of logic, the statement is nonsense.  The second half of the statement is superfluous. Lies are ipso facto not credible (that is the nature of a lie). So of course 100% of the time they are not credible.

As an analogy, no one would say: "Out of all the green marbles you gave me, none is orange."

If instead you said: "Out of all the statements you told, none is believable" (or correct in French: "De tous les choses que tu as dit, aucun n'est crédible"?) or "Out of all the marbles you gave me, none is orange", these full sentences have logical meaning.

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