The subject (pronoun) does not cause "se ... fait" to vary in compound tenses

John C.C1Kwiziq community member

The subject (pronoun) does not cause "se ... fait" to vary in compound tenses

It seems as though "Elle s'est fait jeter en prison", or "Ils se sont fait raser la barbe", in each case with "fait" invariant, are acceptable.   Am I right, and, if so, is there a logic behind the invariance?

Asked 7 hours ago
Maarten K.C1Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

John, 

there will not be agreement of the past participle when ‘ se faire ‘ is followed directly by an infinitive.  

Have a look at Larousse  

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/faire/32701#difficulte  

under difficulties for this point and others regarding agreement with se faire ( and also with faire in various situations) : 

“ DIFFICULTÉS

CONJUGAISON

Faire se conjugue avec l'auxiliaire avoir : j'ai fait, tu as fait, etc.
Se faire se conjugue avec l'auxiliaire être : ça s'est fait tout seul.

ACCORD

Participe passé (+ infinitif). Le participe passé fait immédiatement suivi d'un infinitif est toujours invariable : elles se sont fait faire des robes ; les robes qu'elles se sont fait faire. “

and this 2nd link for a fairly comprehensive discussion of past participle agreement , including specific comments on ‘ se faire ‘, as well as ‘ se voir ‘ and ‘ se laisser ‘ which also have complex rules.

 https://mangolanguages.com/resources/learn/grammar/french/past-participle-agreement-in-french-what-is-it-and-how-to-form-it

John C. asked:

The subject (pronoun) does not cause "se ... fait" to vary in compound tenses

It seems as though "Elle s'est fait jeter en prison", or "Ils se sont fait raser la barbe", in each case with "fait" invariant, are acceptable.   Am I right, and, if so, is there a logic behind the invariance?

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