D' vs Les?

TranC1Kwiziq community member

D' vs Les?

Can someone explain for me the answer for the following question? The answer given is D'immenses vagues

________ immenses vagues venaient vers moi


While I understand the need to change des to de/d' when the adjectives are in front of the noun, I don't quite understand this sentence. 

Shouldn't we use LES here? Surely the waves that coming at me is specific and defined and cannot be some random waves.

Or is it because the English translation is "Huge waves come at me", and without the word THE, the whole expression of "huge waves" become non-specific / undefined?

Merci beaucoup en avance :)

Asked 2 years ago
ChrisC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor Correct answer

Unless you are talking about specific waves, you omit the definite article. You could be watching a boat stirring up big waves which are approaching the shore. In this case you'd use  the definite article.

JimC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

See correction below

YulyvrdcapbilvsyyC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Doesn't the Attention section invalidate the reasoning used?

Jim, your analysis seems problematic given this rule and suggests the use of "des". Clearly that can't be, but why?

"ATTENTION: This rule doesn't apply when des is the contraction of "de + les" (= of/from/to the)"

JimC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Both Y and Chris are right, there is no partitive plural form  -- I've fallen into a common error trap.

Des is the plural of the indefinite article. For example, the singular of des vins is un vin not du vin.

Jim

YulyvrdcapbilvsyyC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

Jim, there IS a partitive plural form, des, which in the lesson is said to be the origin point for the shift to "de" before "adjective + plural noun".

What you are correct about is that the indefinite plural article "des" has the singular forms "un/une". However, the lesson explains that the partitive "des" is the type of article being used, not the indefinite article "des".

Presumably, it is the uncountable nature of the waves that forces the partitive use of "des" rather than if the waves were considered countable, and therefore the indefinite article "des" would be used. The upshot being that partitive "des" can then be manipulated by a different set of rules (such as this lesson's rule regarding "adjective + plural noun"), rather than the indefinite "des" which presumably has other different rules associated with it.

D' vs Les?

Can someone explain for me the answer for the following question? The answer given is D'immenses vagues

________ immenses vagues venaient vers moi


While I understand the need to change des to de/d' when the adjectives are in front of the noun, I don't quite understand this sentence. 

Shouldn't we use LES here? Surely the waves that coming at me is specific and defined and cannot be some random waves.

Or is it because the English translation is "Huge waves come at me", and without the word THE, the whole expression of "huge waves" become non-specific / undefined?

Merci beaucoup en avance :)

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