In the example, why is 'you would have been in trouble given as vous auriez eu des problems'? I would have expected 'vous auriez été .....' What am I missing?
Le Plus-que-parfait in French is the direct equivalent of the Pluperfect in English. It could be described as "the past of the past":
e.g. After I had had to do my homework, I went for a walk.
Of course, English speakers are likely to make contractions: I'd had to, etc.
Look at these examples of "devoir" in the Plus-que-parfait :
J'avais dû en racheter un nouveau après que Patrick avait cassé le mien.I'd had to buy a new one after Patrick had broken mine.
Si elle avait dû le faire, vous auriez eu des problèmes.If she'd had to do it, you would have been in trouble.
Nous avions dû nettoyer la maison avant que mes parents ne vissent le désordre.We'd had to clean the house before my parents saw the mess.
Elles avaient dû repasser l'examen, après qu'elles avaient échoué les trois premières fois!They'd had to take the exam again, after they'd failed the first three times!
Notice that the Plus-que-parfait of "devoir" follows this construction:
Verb avoir in the Imparfait + dû (past participle of devoir)
Learn more about these related French grammar topics
Examples and resources
J'avais dû en racheter un nouveau après que Patrick avait cassé le mien.I'd had to buy a new one after Patrick had broken mine.
Si elle avait dû le faire, vous auriez eu des problèmes.If she'd had to do it, you would have been in trouble.
Q&A Forum 7 questions, 21 answers
Hi John,
As Sean points out it depends on the expression you use and which auxiliary verb is used in that particular expression and not what the English says.
Avoir des problèmes ———> auriez eu des problèmes ( uses avoir not être )
Hope this helps !
Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Isn't this idiomatic? "On est dans le petrin" vs. "On a des problemes" ?
John asked:View original
Would have been v would have had
In the example, why is 'you would have been in trouble given as vous auriez eu des problems'? I would have expected 'vous auriez été .....' What am I missing?
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JackKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Le subjonctif v le plus que parfait
The turkey was so burnt that he had had to get another one. Isnt the part after the that subjonctif?
Asked 3 months ago
Hi Jack,
I can't find this example in the lesson but I am assuming they would say -
La dinde était tellement brûlée qu'il avait dû aller en acheter une autre
The pluperfect is correct, don't assume that every time you have a second clause introduced by 'que' that the subjunctive will follow.
Take a look at the following Kwiziq lesson which will give you some sub-lessons when the subjunctive has to be used -
Hope this helps!
Jack asked:View original
Le subjonctif v le plus que parfait
The turkey was so burnt that he had had to get another one. Isnt the part after the that subjonctif?
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Shrey Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Past of the past - Le Plus-que-parfait
Bonjour !
J’avais dû en racheter un nouveau après que Patrick avait cassé le mien.
This sentence is an example from the lesson. Here, plus-que-parfait has been used in both the verbs. Though the action of breaking took place first and then came the necessity to buy a new one.
Would you like to explain how these two cases can be both Le plus-que-parfait ?
Merci d’avance !
Asked 1 year ago
Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
I guess the answer is that by using the word "après", we are explicitly indicating that one of those actions happened before the other one (although they both happened in the past).
Shrey Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
So if one action precedes the other , then one action should be in Passé Composé and other in Plus-que-Parfait ? I hope a native expert will help.
Shrey asked:View original
Past of the past - Le Plus-que-parfait
Bonjour !
J’avais dû en racheter un nouveau après que Patrick avait cassé le mien.
This sentence is an example from the lesson. Here, plus-que-parfait has been used in both the verbs. Though the action of breaking took place first and then came the necessity to buy a new one.
Would you like to explain how these two cases can be both Le plus-que-parfait ?
Merci d’avance !
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DraganaKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Conjugation of subjonctive in sentence
Nous avions dû nettoyer la maison avant que mes parents ne vissent le désordre.
What is the verb "vissent" - I can only find - voir/ils voient
Merci
Dragana
Asked 1 year ago
Hi Dragana,
vissent is subjunctive imperfect of voir. It is only used in literary French and never in the spoken language.
Dragana asked:View original
Conjugation of subjonctive in sentence
Nous avions dû nettoyer la maison avant que mes parents ne vissent le désordre.
What is the verb "vissent" - I can only find - voir/ils voient
Merci
Dragana
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PamelaKwiziq community member
I don't understand why...
you used in the first explanation of the PQP " e.g. had had.." and yet in all your examples you used only "had" but then in the test you used "had had" as the correct answer x 2. In other tests I have noted that we do not literally take the exact translation but the appropriate translation but this one has me fooled. What is the point of having all the examples "had" and the test "had had"?
Asked 1 year ago
GruffKwiziq team member
Hi Pamela, all of the examples are in the pluperfect in English as well.
Remember that "We had had" is usually contracted in speech to "We'd had" (and this is not the same tense as "We had").
It's very easy to miss the 'd but the apostrophe represents the 'ha' in 'had' that has been squished up (or 'elided', if we want to be technical).
So:
Si elle avait dû le faire...
If she'd had to do it, or
If she had had to do it,
They're equivalent.
Hope that helps!
Pamela asked:View original
I don't understand why...
you used in the first explanation of the PQP " e.g. had had.." and yet in all your examples you used only "had" but then in the test you used "had had" as the correct answer x 2. In other tests I have noted that we do not literally take the exact translation but the appropriate translation but this one has me fooled. What is the point of having all the examples "had" and the test "had had"?
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AlanKwiziq community member
No-one would use " They had had to retake the exam," in written or spoken English.
One would possibly say "They'd had to retake the exam", but the simplest form "They had to retake the exam", is the commonest usage.
Asked 2 years ago
GruffKwiziq team member
Hi Alan
We do use the pluperfect form in English when referring to events further back in time than a time in the past already referred to (usually when relating a story, verbally or in writing). We try to keep the questions short and so that extra context may not be apparent here so I understand why you'd suggest "they had to" but it isn't equivalent. The example would make more sense in a wider context, and so it does feel contrived because that's missing.
E.g. consider:
"It was revealed that they had had to retake the exam."
This has a very different nuance to:
"It was revealed that they had to retake the exam."
This example is also complicated slightly by the fact the verb is "have to" and so you have the auxiliary "had" (needed to form the pluperfect) along with the past of "have to" which can get a little clunky.
AlanKwiziq community member
I understand what you say but whilst the use of " had had" may be grammatically correct it just isn't said. Consider; "They had to retake the exam because they needed a pass to attend university", compared with "They had had to retake the exam because they needed a pass to attend university". There is perhaps a slight difference in meaning in that the latter suggests some compulsion but the sense is the same and the former is more elegant which is why everyone I have asked would use it.
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Alan !
I agree that you will more commonly use "I'd had" (which is simply the contracted form of had had) or even simply "I had", though the second one is losing the anteriority contained in the use of the Pluperfect = I'd had took place before I had :)
I've now updated the example to "I'd had" :)
Merci et à bientôt !
BeverleyKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
I would use it. For example "I had had to retake the exam twice before I could apply for the course. Or "I had already had to retake the driving test twice before I bought my car".
AnnieKwiziq community member
This site could really be improved of the examples were reworked to make sense in both British and American English. Americans rarely use the pluperfect, and often use a time marker like "before" to avoid having to use it. Many of us don't contract "had had" with " 'd had" since the only time we use that tense in the first place is for emphasis. The second examples you gave are things that would get used in AmE, whereas the examples in the lesson are so odd as to be barely comprehensible.
BeverleyKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
The lesson is not odd. I am English. Before my retirement I was a teacher and taught English grammar for many years. The pluperfect may not be used often, in English, but it is grammatically correct, a valid tense (as in French) and is good English. American English is a different language. It would be impossible for the site to provide for the differences between American and English English.
As Aurelie said, in spoken English it would have been "I'd had...." with the apostrophe replacing the "ha" in had, but it still means "I had had....."
SherryKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
It's true that there are differences between American English and British English, but I don't think this is one of them. I'm a native speaker of American English and the pluperfect in that language feels perfectly natural to me, both in speech and on the page. Besides if it's used in French, we want to learn it, don't we?
DanKwiziq community member
Today when reading Gruff's response to Alan I just had to respond but I had to reread the material. Yesterday I had not yet read it but I had had to read something else before then.
Now I'm convinced I may never have to use this verb tense again.
:)
DanKwiziq community member
Oh! I just now remembered that yesterday I had to take an exam. Before I could take the exam I had had to read something just as difficult. Now I'm sure it wouldn't have mattered if I were American nor British, I would have had had to do the same.
Yayah!!
There is a Big Bang Theory episode where they get tripped up over a time traveller being future past plu imperfect or something like this...
Alan asked:View original
No-one would use " They had had to retake the exam," in written or spoken English.
One would possibly say "They'd had to retake the exam", but the simplest form "They had to retake the exam", is the commonest usage.
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GrettaKwiziq community member
Le mot "vissent"
Je ne comprends pas le mot "vissent" dans la phrase "Nous avions dû nettoyer la maison avant que mes parents ne vissent le désordre." Je pensais que ce serait le subjonctif du verbe "voir" mais je l'ai trouvé sous le mot "visser".
Asked 3 years ago
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Greta !
It is indeed the verb "voir" in Le Subjonctif Imparfait, which is used very rarely nowadays but perfectly correct in this sentence, regarding the Sequence of tenses.
However, people would tend to use Le Subjonctif Présent nowadays, as such:
"Nous avions dû nettoyer la maison avant que mes parents ne VOIENT le désordre."
Both sentences are perfectly valid :)
I hope that's helpful!
À bientôt !
Gretta asked:View original
Le mot "vissent"
Je ne comprends pas le mot "vissent" dans la phrase "Nous avions dû nettoyer la maison avant que mes parents ne vissent le désordre." Je pensais que ce serait le subjonctif du verbe "voir" mais je l'ai trouvé sous le mot "visser".
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