Hi Jay,
Can you give the full context?
Ni l'un(e) ni l'autre ne... means neither one nor the other or neither (of them).
Look at these examples:
J'ai appelé Paul et Hadrien, mais ni l'un ni l'autre n'a répondu.
I called Paul and Hadrien, but neither one nor the other answered
Qu'en est-il de Julien et Sophie? - Ni l'un ni l'autre ne peut venir.
What about Julien and Sophie? - Neither one nor the other can come
Mes filles sont bonnes en maths, mais ni l'une ni l'autre n'est bonne en français.
My daughters are good in maths, but neither [one nor the other] is good in French.
L'un/l'une agrees in gender with its antecedent.
Note also that the verb following is conjugated as with il/elle.
Ni l'un/e ni l'autre can also be used on its own to express neither:
Quel parfum tu veux ? Fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre.
What flavour do you want ? Strawberry or vanilla? - Neither.
Tu aimes Fiona ou Pauline? - Ni l'une ni l'autre.
Do you love Fiona or Pauline? - Neither.
Learn more about these related French grammar topics
Examples and resources
Tu aimes Fiona ou Pauline? - Ni l'une ni l'autre.
Do you love Fiona or Pauline? - Neither.
Qu'en est-il de Julien et Sophie? - Ni l'un ni l'autre ne peut venir.
What about Julien and Sophie? - Neither one nor the other can come
J'ai appelé Paul et Hadrien, mais ni l'un ni l'autre n'a répondu.
I called Paul and Hadrien, but neither one nor the other answered
Quel parfum tu veux ? Fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre.
What flavour do you want ? Strawberry or vanilla? - Neither.
Mes filles sont bonnes en maths, mais ni l'une ni l'autre n'est bonne en français.
My daughters are good in maths, but neither [one nor the other] is good in French.
Q&A Forum 10 questions, 28 answers
JayKwiziq community member
If there are three girls you can't say 'neither' it has to be 'none of them' so isn't 'aucune' correct to use here?be...
Asked 11 months ago
Jay asked:View original
If there are three girls you can't say 'neither' it has to be 'none of them' so isn't 'aucune' correct to use here?be...
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MaxKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
English
In "L'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to." I respectfully suggest that "the object it refers to" be replaced with "its antecedent", which is both more concise are more accurate: pronouns do not have objectives - they have only antecedents. This may be picky, but this IS a grammar site! All's fair in love and syntax....max
Asked 11 months ago
Max asked:View original
English
In "L'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to." I respectfully suggest that "the object it refers to" be replaced with "its antecedent", which is both more concise are more accurate: pronouns do not have objectives - they have only antecedents. This may be picky, but this IS a grammar site! All's fair in love and syntax....max
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Tom Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Aucun(e) des deux
Is "aucune des deux ne vient" a valid alternative to "ni l'une ni l'autre ne vient"?
Asked 1 year ago
Hi Tom,
Both sentences are similar in meaning and correct.
Aucune des deux ne vient = Neither is coming
Ni l'une ni l'autre ne vient= Neither one nor the other is coming
Hope this helps!
Tom asked:View original
Aucun(e) des deux
Is "aucune des deux ne vient" a valid alternative to "ni l'une ni l'autre ne vient"?
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HelenKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Can you use aucun/aucune to shorten these sentences?
Especially, if you are saing "neither". Could you use aucun/aucune with "ne" in front fo the verb: J'ai appelé Paul et Hadrien, mais aucun (or personne) n'a répondu." (I'm thinking now that aucun is about things not people? So, what about personne?)
Asked 1 year ago
You can say either: "aucun n'a répondu" or "personne n'a répondu".
They mean about the same thing with a slight difference in connotation:
"aucun" seems to imply a known group of people of which nobody replied. "personne" is simply "nobody".
Comparing it to English, it seems to me that "aucun" is similar to "none" and "personne" to "nobody".
-- Chris (not a native speaker).
Bonjour Helen !
To complete Chris's answer, here is a link to our related lessons:
https://progress.lawlessfrench.com/revision/grammar/how-to-say-none-ne-aucun-e-negative-expressions
https://progress.lawlessfrench.com/revision/grammar/aucun-e-ne-none-of-them
Bonne journée !
I believe that Aucun in the plural can be used with those nouns that only exist in a plural form and also for those nouns whose meanings differ from singular to plural.
e.g.Aucuns agrès (No equipment), Aucunes arrhes (No deposit); Aucuns frais (No charges).
Also,
D'aucuns (Some (people)) acting as an equivalent of Certains or Quelques-uns is sometimes used:
D'aucuns croient que la terre est plate.
HelenKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Oops. Just found out aucun/e can apply to people....so would the use of aucun or personne be correct?
HelenKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Bonjour, Chris and Aurelie--
Thank you both!! Very helpful. Somehow I can remember aucun(e) more easily!
Helen asked:View original
Can you use aucun/aucune to shorten these sentences?
Especially, if you are saing "neither". Could you use aucun/aucune with "ne" in front fo the verb: J'ai appelé Paul et Hadrien, mais aucun (or personne) n'a répondu." (I'm thinking now that aucun is about things not people? So, what about personne?)
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AjitKwiziq community member
What will be the case when one thing is masculine and the other is feminine?
Ni l'un ni l'autre OR Ni l'une ni l'autre OR something else?
Asked 2 years ago
LannyKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Much like ils/elles if the group is all female (or in your question both components are female) use l'une, otherwise for all male or mixed groups use l'un.
Ajit asked:View original
What will be the case when one thing is masculine and the other is feminine?
Ni l'un ni l'autre OR Ni l'une ni l'autre OR something else?
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JamesKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Note that l'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to.
Tu veux fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre. I note that both `fraise` and `vanilla` are feminine, therefore should the reply not be Ni l`une ni l`autre?
Asked 2 years ago
Hi,
The actual question is " Quel parfum tu veux ? vanille ou fraise? "
Answer: " Ni l'un, ni l'autre", as it agrees with parfum which is masculine.
Hope you all read this...
Ron Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Bonjour James,
I think that you are correct because «fraise» is definitely a feminin noun. This is one that Aurélie needs to reply to as there could be a grammaire rule that I am unaware of.
Note that l'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to.
Tu veux fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre.
Do you want strawberry or vanilla? - Neither.
Bonne chance !
AndyKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Really interesting.
I can't say for sure but I do know that "ni l'un ni l'autre" is often a fixed expression in French.
I also notice that in the examples given, that agreement is shown in relation to an aforementioned masculine or feminine person, and is perhaps not required (or maybe it just gets forgotten) when relating to the gender of an object. I suspect it would apply to animals but perhaps not with asexual nouns (which still technically have a grammatical gender of course).
SusanKwiziq community member
Bonjour Ron,
Did Aurélie ever respond to this question? The lesson hasn't been changed to "Ni l'une ni l'autre" to respond to the "fraise ou vanille" question.
James asked:View original
Note that l'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to.
Tu veux fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre. I note that both `fraise` and `vanilla` are feminine, therefore should the reply not be Ni l`une ni l`autre?
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Ron Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Bonjour James,
I do believe you are correct as «fraise» is a feminine noun. Perhaps this is one that Aurélie needs to respond to in case there is a grammar rule that I am unaware of that would make this an exception.
Note that l'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to.
Ni l'un/e ni l'autre can also be used on its own to express neither:
Tu veux fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre.
Do you want strawberry or vanilla? - Neither.
Bonne chance !
JamesKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Thanks Ron,
I would assume that if one of the subjects had been masculine, then it would be Ni l`un..., but both are feminine.
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MichaelKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
In the first quiz question of ni ni ne I noticed that the answer is
n'a mangé...ni ni isn't this neither nor rather than neither of them.
Asked 2 years ago
Bonjour Michael,
In the context of the phrase, ni. . .ni. . n'a mangé, it would translate as neither of them ate. However, literally speaking yes ni . . . ni is neither. . . nor.
In the context of the phrase, ni. . .ni. . n'a mangé, it would translate as neither of them ate. However, literally speaking yes ni . . . ni is neither. . . nor.
Bonjour Michael !
The translation of ni...ni... varies depending on sentences.
In the lesson you referred to, "ni l'un ni l'autre" literally mean "Neither one nor the other", which would sometimes be better translated in English as "Neither of them".
But I agree that it applies mostly to people, and we could prefer "neither one nor the other" when it comes (like here) to food...
I've therefore decided to update the lesson title to : Ni l'un(e) ni l'autre ne ... = Neither [one nor the other] (negation) :)
I hope that's helpful!
Merci beaucoup et à bientôt !
The translation of ni...ni... varies depending on sentences.
In the lesson you referred to, "ni l'un ni l'autre" literally mean "Neither one nor the other", which would sometimes be better translated in English as "Neither of them".
But I agree that it applies mostly to people, and we could prefer "neither one nor the other" when it comes (like here) to food...
I've therefore decided to update the lesson title to : Ni l'un(e) ni l'autre ne ... = Neither [one nor the other] (negation) :)
I hope that's helpful!
Merci beaucoup et à bientôt !
Bonjour Tom !
Ok, I completely agree that this example is confusing at best :)
The explanation is that here we're talking about flavours (ice cream, yoghurt...), which in French is masculine = un parfum.
Therefore, it's my humble opinion that that's why we use the masculine here, but I agree that it looks so illogical to non-French natives!
I've decided to rephrase this example, to make the antecedent clearer.
I hope that's helpful!
Bonne journée !
MichaelKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Ron, Aurélie.
Thanks for your clear and succinct answer, as usual.
Cheers Mike.
JamesKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Bonjour,
I am correct then in saying; Ni l`une ni l`autre? As both fraise and vanille are feminine? The lesson is already entitled `Ni l'un(e) ni l'autre ne...` Therefore no update is required.
Tom Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
I have read this thread attentively and am none the wiser as regards the fraise/vanille problème.
To quote Ron:
"
Note that l'un/l'une agrees in gender with the object it refers to.
Ni l'un/e ni l'autre can also be used on its own to express neither:
Tu veux fraise ou vanille? - Ni l'un ni l'autre.
Do you want strawberry or vanilla? - Neither.
"
Surely since frais/vanille has already been referenced the only valid reply in this case should be "ni l'une ni l'autre"
Am I not understanding properly?
Michael asked:View original
In the first quiz question of ni ni ne I noticed that the answer is
n'a mangé...ni ni isn't this neither nor rather than neither of them.
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DianaKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
can you please give another example of this construction. I can't intuitively understand it.
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Diana !
Are you talking about "qu'en est-il" or "ni l'un ni l'autre" ?
DianaKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
qu'en est-il is one of the example sentences in that topic. so yes, qu'en est-il de J et S means what about J and S. It's just a strange construction for me.
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Diana !
"Qu'en est-il ?" literally means "What is of it?".
When used with "de", as such: "Qu'en est-il de ... ?" , it means "What is it of ...? / What about ...?".
I hope that's helpful!
À bientôt !
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HéctorKwiziq community member
But you use this only when you're talking about two subjects, right?
I mean, In all the previous examples you were only talking about two people. What if I want to talk about three or more people/objects/animals?
Asked 2 years ago
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Héctor !
Could you please give me a specific example of what you mean, and I'd be happy to look into it for you :)
Héctor asked:View original
But you use this only when you're talking about two subjects, right?
I mean, In all the previous examples you were only talking about two people. What if I want to talk about three or more people/objects/animals?
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