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Confusion between direct object pronouns, reflexive pronouns and en/y in imperative affirmative

ShreyA1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Confusion between direct object pronouns, reflexive pronouns and en/y in imperative affirmative

Bonjour Madame Cécile !

A rule from the lesson states-

Using double object pronouns in affirmative commands (L'Impératif)

1.Adverbial pronouns en/y are placed after moi/toi/lui/nous/vous/leur  and moi/toi become m' and t’

Can it be elaborated by using the following- en/ y are placed after moi/toi/lui/l’/nous/vous/leur/les.

Accompagne-l’y ! -> Accompany him there ! (Here, l’ is a direct object which is better as compared to lui)

Conduis-les-y ! -> Drive them there ! (Here too, les is a direct object used instead of leur)

I would like to know whether direct object too satisfy this rule or only indirect object pronouns(as mentioned in the rule) could be used before en/y ?

2.Cover your head ! Couvrez-vous-la! OR Couvrez-la-vous!

The verb used is “se couvrir” but would ‘la’ precede ‘vous’ ? 

 “Vous” here is a Reflexive Pronoun but it behaves like an indirect object pronoun as the accepted answer was ‘Couvrez-la-vous !’

But a Kwiziq lesson states the following pattern that reflexive pronouns precede direct object pronouns- 

Reflexive + direct object (double pronouns)

Je serais vraiment reconnaissant de recevoir votre aide.

Merci encore !

Asked 2 years ago
CécileKwiziq team memberCorrect answer

Hi Shrey,

The rule when you have two pronouns ( whichever group they belong to) in an affirmative or negative sentence is as follows -

me                        

te

se             le     

nous         la               lui

vous         les             leur          y          en

(1)          (2)              (3)          (4)       (5)

Hope this helps!

 

 

ShreyA1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Merci Madame pour votre réponse !

But if I had to write the following sentence with two pronouns-

Donne les bonbons à Jean et moi ! ->

Then it would be - Donne-les-nous ! 

But here, the order does not match with your tip, Madame.

Am I missing out something?

Thank you for further clarification.

ShreyA1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Even the sentence “ Couvrez-la-vous !” does not match with the order in the tip. 

Is it that your tip works best when we have to place the pronouns after the subject pronouns ?

I think for imperative affirmative , the order of line (1) and (2) can be reversed which would work .

And for negative imperative , the hierarchy remains the same.

Please help me to clarify the 2 sentences and the order mentioned above .

Cordialement 

Shrey

CécileKwiziq team member

Hi Shrey,

 I am sorry but I actually misread your question ...

The table I gave you ( also known as the football team) is correct for affirmative and negative sentences in the indicative mood tenses .

e.g.

Il nous en parlera /Il ne nous en parlera pas He will speak /won't speak to us about it 

Il y en a trois / Il n'y en a pas trois There are / There aren't three of them

Je le lui ai donné / Je ne le  lui ai pas donné I gave / I didn't give it to him 

In the case of the Imperative affirmative the order and some pronouns change :

me becomes moi

te  becomes toi

and comes after the verb ( as in English) 

e.g.

Appelle-moi! / Ne m'appelle pas! = Call me!/ Don't call me! 

Vas-y!/ N'y va pas! = Go ! / Don't go !

Donne-le moi! / Ne me le donne pas!Give it to me/ Don't give it to me!

Donne-la-lui! / Ne la lui donne pas! = Give it to him/her! / Don't give it to him/her!

Donne-m'en! / Ne m'en donne pas! Give me some!/ Don't give me any!

Envoyez-les-lui!/ Ne les lui envoyez pas! = Send them to him/her! / Don't send them to him/her!

It becomes tricky with reflexive verbs...

Asseyons-nous! / Ne nous asseyons pas!= Let's sit down! / Let's not sit down!

To use the example of 'se couvrir la tête' which introduces an extra pronoun -

Couvre-toi-la! / Ne te la couvre pas!= Cover it!/ Don't cover it!

A couple more examples as, Se casser la jambe / se gratter la tête...

Casse-toi-la!/ Ne te la casse pas!= Break it!/ Don't break it!

Grattez-vous-la! / Ne vous la grattez pas! Scratch it!/ Don't scratch it!

but there won't be many reflexive which take an extra pronoun and in the imperative they will sound very clumsy and even the French would avoid them.

A lot to digest ....

Very long answer to a very long question....

 

AlanC1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

But, as Shrey said, the accepted answer for the following question contradicts this explanation.

Q. ''Couvrez-vous la tête!'' Write ''Cover it'' : 

A. "Couvrez-la-vous"

So shouldn't it be "Casse-la-toi" etc.?

That seems to be the opinion on this thread:

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/fr-imp%C3%A9ratif-and-reflexive-pronouns.913557/

 

ShreyA1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Bonjour Madame Cécile ! No words to express your humble gesture . I would just thank you from the bottom of my heart for spending your valuable time to provide me such exhaustive and comprehensive rules of this topic.

ShreyA1 Kwiziq Q&A super contributor

Bonjour Madame Cécile ! 

Sorry to disturb you but got another question regarding a sentence mentioned by you -

Vas-y!/ N'y vas pas! = Go ! / Don't go !

Shouldn’t it be “N’y va pas !” ?

As one drops the “s” in ER verbs even if it’s negative imperative.

Merci encore!

CécileKwiziq team member

Well spotted - typo corrected...

Confusion between direct object pronouns, reflexive pronouns and en/y in imperative affirmative

Bonjour Madame Cécile !

A rule from the lesson states-

Using double object pronouns in affirmative commands (L'Impératif)

1.Adverbial pronouns en/y are placed after moi/toi/lui/nous/vous/leur  and moi/toi become m' and t’

Can it be elaborated by using the following- en/ y are placed after moi/toi/lui/l’/nous/vous/leur/les.

Accompagne-l’y ! -> Accompany him there ! (Here, l’ is a direct object which is better as compared to lui)

Conduis-les-y ! -> Drive them there ! (Here too, les is a direct object used instead of leur)

I would like to know whether direct object too satisfy this rule or only indirect object pronouns(as mentioned in the rule) could be used before en/y ?

2.Cover your head ! Couvrez-vous-la! OR Couvrez-la-vous!

The verb used is “se couvrir” but would ‘la’ precede ‘vous’ ? 

 “Vous” here is a Reflexive Pronoun but it behaves like an indirect object pronoun as the accepted answer was ‘Couvrez-la-vous !’

But a Kwiziq lesson states the following pattern that reflexive pronouns precede direct object pronouns- 

Reflexive + direct object (double pronouns)

Je serais vraiment reconnaissant de recevoir votre aide.

Merci encore !

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