La Voix Passive with Modal Verbs

ScottC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

La Voix Passive with Modal Verbs

Hi,

In a context outside these lessons, I was asked to put the following sentence in la voix passive:

"Le conducteur n'a pas pu arrêter le train à temps."

I thought it would be straightforward and answered as follows:

"Le train n'a pas été pu arrêter à temps par le conducteur."

But this was marked as false, with the correct answer being:

"Le train n'a pas pu être arrêter à temps par le conducteur."

I don't believe the use of la voix passive with modal verbs (pouvoir, devoir, vouloir) was covered explicitly in this lesson, so I wanted to ask if you could please explain these rules, since it seems they might differ from the rules presented here.

thanks, Scott


Asked 4 years ago
CécileKwiziq team memberCorrect answer

Hi Scott,

The correct answer is -

Le train n'a pas pu être arrêté à temps 

LauraKwiziq team memberCorrect answer

There are a lot of good points here, which I will attempt to summarize.

As Jameson suggested, modal verbs cannot be used passively. So in a construction like Le conducteur n'a pas pu arrêter le train à temps, it's the main verb that goes from active to passive.

The passive construction is formed by (1) conjugating être in the same tense/mood as the verb in the active construction, then adding (2) the past participle of the main verb. And (3) the subject in the original sentence becomes the agent, while (4) the direct object becomes the subject.

So, 

1 - main verb arrêter is the infinitive --> être in the infinitive

2 - past participle of arrêter = arrêté

3 - subject le conducteur --> agent par le conducteur

4 - object le train --> subject le train

Which gives us Le train n'a pas pu être arrêté par le conducteur.

This example is relatively easy because le train is masculine singular. If we used a feminine and/or plural noun, we'd also have to think about agreement.

La voiture n'a pas pu être arrêtée ...

And also with a plural object-cum-subject, we'd have to think about the conjugation of the modal.

Les voitures n'ont pas pu être arrêtées ...

Negation

>>In both the negative examples,  shouldnt the 'ne pas' follow the rule for the infinitive passé ...

This is a different matter entirely - the negation could be used with either the modal or the main verb, with different nuances.

La viande ne peut pas être mangée par le végane.
--> The meat cannot be eaten by the vegan (it's not possible, he's not allowed)

La viande peut ne pas être mangée par le végane.
--> The meat might not be eaten by the vegan (it's possible he might not eat it)
[in fact, by definition he won't, so while this example is correct grammatically, it doesn't make sense logically]

Le train n'a pas pu être arrêté par le conducteur.
--> The train was not able to be stopped by the conductor, the conductor was not able to stop the train.

Le train a pu ne pas être arrêté par le conducteur.
--> It's possible that the train was not stopped by the conductor.

CharmondC1Kwiziq community member

Hello,

I think the question was not yet answered so i want to raise this again.

I think the  (corrected)question is, what are the rules if the erv in the active has modal verbs (ex. can drive, can speak):

"Le train n'a pas été pu arrêté à temps par le conducteur." - Wrong
"Le train n'a pas pu être arrêté à temps par le conducteur."  - Right

Based on above, rule should be

1. Take modal verb - change to corresponding compound text

2. Add infinitive être 

3. Add past participle of the other verb (ex. can drive)

Is above understanding correct, can this be added in this dicussion or have a separate discussion

JamesonC1Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor

May I add to the explanation  given for converting a sentence with a MODAL verb to the passive mood.

Examples GIVEN:

Active: Le conducteur n'a pas pu arrêter le train à temps:

Right passive:Le train n'a pas pu être arrêté à temps par le conducteur.

Could it be:

Object becomes the subject:

Modal verb structure stays as is:(except to match plurality of new subject)

Main verb(the verb being complemented by the modal verb) is changed to the 'infinitive passivé' : thus the infinitive (arrêter) in the active sentence becomes the infinitive passé (être arrêté) in the passive sentence.

Par + (original) subject follows.

EXAMPLES:

le vegan devait manger la viande= la viande devait être mangée par le vegan.

le vegan ne peut pas  manger la viande= la viande ne peut pas être mangée par le vegan.

les mécaniciens pourraient reparer la voiture == la voiture pourrait être reparée par les mécaniciens

Also some modal verbs( vouloir??) may not be able to be used as modal verbs in passive sentences. Least I couldn't come up with one.

I have a follow up question. In both the negative examples,  shouldnt the 'ne pas' follow the rule for the infinitive passé and be written as follows:

la viande peut ne pas être mangée par le vegan.

Le train a pu ne pas être arrêté à temps par le conducteur.

Thanks.. looking forward to response... especially re the follow up question.

La Voix Passive with Modal Verbs

Hi,

In a context outside these lessons, I was asked to put the following sentence in la voix passive:

"Le conducteur n'a pas pu arrêter le train à temps."

I thought it would be straightforward and answered as follows:

"Le train n'a pas été pu arrêter à temps par le conducteur."

But this was marked as false, with the correct answer being:

"Le train n'a pas pu être arrêter à temps par le conducteur."

I don't believe the use of la voix passive with modal verbs (pouvoir, devoir, vouloir) was covered explicitly in this lesson, so I wanted to ask if you could please explain these rules, since it seems they might differ from the rules presented here.

thanks, Scott


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