Agreeing past participle with subject's gender and number with (+ être) verbs in Le Passé Composé

answered ...

Hi Bibian,

No, you won't use the article in French with jobs as explained in the following lesson:

https://progress.lawlessfrench.com/revision/grammar/dont-use-indefinite-articles-with-professions

unless you add an adjective', 

Anthony est un excellent boulanger .

Hope this helps!

answered ...

They had great fun last weekend.

Would the meaning be the same without "great"?

Hi Walker,

The addition of 'bien' intensifies the fun element , the difference between a good time and a great time.

Hope this helps!

Chris: Sorry, I should have quoted the English translation from the page.  It does not utilise the word 'great'.  It just says they 'had fun' which (to have fun) is the base meaning of s'amuser (no bien required).

However, I do understand after reading Cécile's explanation that this is about intensifying the 'fun' element of the meaning, much like the bien in "j'aime bien...," when referring to objects (not people) I suppose.

Many thanks to you both!

"Much like the bien in 'j'aime bien' emphasises how much you like an object," I meant to say. 

I just saw that this one has been covered previously.

Hi Martin,

There is no "mettre" in this sentence because the verb " se maquiller" already means "to put one's make-up on". You can't say "I made myself up" in English. (Well, you could, but it would mean something completely different).

-- Chris.

Merci !!

Hi Bill, I believe there's been a useful and detailed discussion already on this subject. You should be able to find it. 

-- Chris. 

Hi Bill,

If you scroll right down in that lesson, you will find answers to this question.

Bonne continuation!

Bonjour Bill,

There is agreement with reflexive verbs only when the reflexive pronoun is the direct object.

Nous nous sommes lavés. - We washed up. The reflexive pronoun nous is the direct object: we washed ourselves -  the people doing the washing and being washed are the same.

But in nous nous sommes brossé les cheveux, the reflexive pronoun is actually the indirect object, because the direct object is les cheveux. While not grammatical, you can get a better sense of this by rewording the sentence: Nous sommes brossé les cheveux à nous. Since the direct object does not precede the verb, there is no agreement.

As this is a very tricky grammar point, Aurélie is going to address it in detail, either in this lesson or a separate one, but in the meantime you might find section 3 of this lesson helpful: Agreement with pronominal verbs

Hi Rob,

If you look at the bottom of the lesson, there is a long explanation in answer to the same question posted by Gabrielle on the 28 April.

Let me know if you still don't get it ....

 

Hi Jan - if you read the discussion below you'll see this comes up a lot...

Hi Gabrielle,

The agreement of past participles in the case of reflexive verbs is most interesting.

As they use the auxilliary verb 'être' in the perfect tense, they normally agree just as adjectives in gender and number.

This is always true of simple intransitive verbs like se coucher, s'appeler, se réveiller, s'arrêter, which don't have an object.

In the case of verbs like 'se casser.... quelque chose', 'se brosser...quelque chose', 'se laver ...quelque chose' etc. which in English translate literally and oddly to break /brush/wash (yourself ) something which clearly have an object  then we apply the agreement rules of verbs using 'avoir' in the perfect tense, and the past participle will agree only if the object precedes the verb.

Here are a few examples which might help to illustrate the point:

Ils se sont lavé les mains,( They washed their hands) but ils se sont lavés à l'eau froide (They washed  in cold water).

Elle s'est cassé une jambe (She broke a leg) but La jambe qu'elle s'est cassée aura du mal à guérir (The leg she broke will not heal well).

Elles se sont préparé une soupe (They have made (themselves) a soup) but la soupe qu'elles se sont préparée est délicieuse (The soup they made is delicious).

Nous nous sommes acheté une maison (We bought ourselves a house) but La maison que nous nous sommes achetée n'a pas de dépendances (The house we bought has no outbuildings)

Hope this helps!

Cécile, that is an enormous help. The examples you gave are really clear. Thank you very much. G

:-)

Cécile - could you explain this example more, I don't see the difference. Don't both cases have an object which doesn't precede the verb?

Ils se sont lavé les mains,( They washed their hands) but ils se sont lavés les mains à l'eau froide (They washed their hands in cold water).

Hi Alan,

Thanks for pointing this out, it is in fact a mistake . The examples should read: 

Ils se sont lavé les mains.

But

Ils se sont lavés à l'eau froide .

Will correct the text above.

 

 

Hi Paul,

You will find an excellent explanation of all possible cases along with examples here:

https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/agreement-with-pronominal-verbs/

Greetings, -- Chris.

I suggest that Kwiziq leave out tests on this topic at this stage of the course. 

Why?

-- Chris

P.S.: See my reply to your later post.

Cecile and Chris, Your posts on this topic were excellent. Thank you so much. 

In addition, I want to say that I agree with the person below who said this type of sentence (with reflexive verbs where the past participle does not agree with the subject) should be left out of lessons at earlier levels, for instance Lower Intermediate, which is my level. Why? Because we already have a heavy load of things to remember and understand. The brain only holds so much new information at one time. Leave it until later. As a career teacher, I believe there is a principle of providing an appropriate level of difficulty for each student's current achievement level.

Then again, if it is thought appropriate to include it, PUT IT IN THE LESSON. Don't just throw it in during a test when we have never seen it before.

And last, if you are going to toss it into a test, at least let us know right away, that yes, the test answer given is correct. It's not so much that I needed an explanation right now. I needed someone to say, Yes, the answer we gave is correct. No, it is not an error. 

But, thank you for the clear answer you two gave.

Bravo Jan!