Hello rooms and experts
Please clarify why the second of the two options is not also grammatically valid ?
1) La fille dont il a tombé amoureux
2) La fille avec laquelle il a tombé amoureux
Look at these sentences:
Les boutons de manchette dont il a envie sont trop chers.
Les boutons de manchette desquels il a envie sont trop chers.The cuff links he wants (of which he has envy) are too expensive.
Les boutons de manchette desquels il a envie sont trop chers.The cuff links he wants (of which he has envy) are too expensive.
La fille de qui il a peur habite ici.
La fille de laquelle il a peur habite ici.
La fille dont il a peur habite ici.The girl he is scared of (of whom he is scared) lives here.
La fille de laquelle il a peur habite ici.
La fille dont il a peur habite ici.The girl he is scared of (of whom he is scared) lives here.
To introduce relative clauses with the preposition de, there are three ways in French:
- dont
- de qui (of/about whom), which can only apply to living things
- The contracted forms of de + quel (of/about which): duquel / de laquelle / desquels / desquelles.
These forms agree in gender and number with the object they refer to.
ATTENTION:
You can never have de or duquel or dont at the end of the clause like in English.
-> You cannot say:
La fille qui je parle de
La fille laquelle je parle de The girl whom I'm speaking of
La fille je parle dont
-> You cannot say:
La fille qui je parle de
La fille laquelle je parle de The girl whom I'm speaking of
La fille je parle dont
See also Dont = Whose
Learn more about these related French grammar topics
Examples and resources
Les boutons de manchette dont il a envie sont trop chers.
Les boutons de manchette desquels il a envie sont trop chers.The cuff links he wants (of which he has envy) are too expensive.
Les boutons de manchette desquels il a envie sont trop chers.The cuff links he wants (of which he has envy) are too expensive.
La fille de qui il a peur habite ici.
La fille de laquelle il a peur habite ici.
La fille dont il a peur habite ici.The girl he is scared of (of whom he is scared) lives here.
La fille de laquelle il a peur habite ici.
La fille dont il a peur habite ici.The girl he is scared of (of whom he is scared) lives here.
Q&A Forum 10 questions, 28 answers
Hi Paris,
1. the expression is,
'tomber amoureux de quelqu'un' ( to fall in love with someone)
2. it uses être not avoir
so -
La fille dont il est tombé amoureux ...
would be correct.
Hope this helps!
Paris asked:View original
Dont vs Avec laquelle
Hello rooms and experts
Please clarify why the second of the two options is not also grammatically valid ?
1) La fille dont il a tombé amoureux
2) La fille avec laquelle il a tombé amoureux
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DianeKwiziq community member
One More De Qui Question
Thanks for clarifying the use of de qui v. dont. Can I use de qui to refer back to an animal? For example: "Le chat de qui je parle est très mignon." Or is "qui" really just for people?
Asked 3 weeks ago
Hi Diane,
For a cat/other animals, you would say -
Le chat dont je parle ...
le chat duquel je parle ...
but I prefer dont!
Hope this helps!
Diane asked:View original
One More De Qui Question
Thanks for clarifying the use of de qui v. dont. Can I use de qui to refer back to an animal? For example: "Le chat de qui je parle est très mignon." Or is "qui" really just for people?
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DianeKwiziq community member
What about De Qui?'
I found Chris' post very helpful. Merci! What remains unclear is the use of de qui. Couple of specific questions 1) Can I say both "La fille dont je parle" or "la fille de qui je parle"? Or does the verbal clause (parler de) require dont even if it's a person? 2) Do I use de qui with a prep phrase in stead of duquel (and its derivatives)? For example, "La fille près de qui je me suis assise" Would "'de laquelle" be equally acceptable in that sentence?
Asked 4 weeks ago
Yes, you could say La fille de qui je parle, because you are talking about a person. This wouldn't work when talking about inanimate objects and animals.
Also in your second example, both versions work: près de qui and près de laquelle.
Diane asked:View original
What about De Qui?'
I found Chris' post very helpful. Merci! What remains unclear is the use of de qui. Couple of specific questions 1) Can I say both "La fille dont je parle" or "la fille de qui je parle"? Or does the verbal clause (parler de) require dont even if it's a person? 2) Do I use de qui with a prep phrase in stead of duquel (and its derivatives)? For example, "La fille près de qui je me suis assise" Would "'de laquelle" be equally acceptable in that sentence?
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MaryKwiziq community member
de laquelle
This was the phrase to complete: La forchette ________ tu te sers.... I chose "dont" but not "de laquelle" and was marked Nearly right. why is de laquelle correct? It seems not to be a direct object of te servir - "the fork which you use", but would rather translate as "the fork of which you use". Why isn't it " la forchette que tu te sers"?
Asked 2 months ago
Hi Mary,
Can you use the 'report it' button on your correction board as this refers to a quiz and it will link directly to that quiz and it will make it easier for us to look at your query and spot any errors.
Chris Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
The use of dont and duquel/de laquel/desquels/desquelles is a bit tricky. In the lesson it sounds as if you could use them interchangably but this isn't really always the case.
You need to distinguish between (1) a prepositional phrase and (2) a verbal phrase.
1. Prepositional phrases are formed by at least two words that could, in theory, be replaced by a single preposition: près de, à côté de, autour de, à propos de, etc. Prepositional phrases are replaced by duquel (and its derivatives).
2. Verbal phrases are those, in which de follows a verb: se servir de, parler de, se souvenir de, etc. Verbal phrases require dont.
In spoken French, dont often is used in places where, actually, a version of duquel ought to stand.
La fourchette dont tu te sers. -- Verbal phrase, use dont. Note that in kwiziq dont and duquel are treated as if they were synonymes. This is, according to my understanding, strictly speaking an oversimplification. La fourchette de laquelle tu te sers sounds off to me. I would like to hear Cécil's verdict on that, though. Hope she sees this.
Le garçon près duquel je me suis assis. -- Prepositional phrase, use duquel.
Dont also is used to denote a kind of implied connection or ownership of something (often times where "whose" is used in English):
Le livre dont je connais l'auteur. -- The book whose author I know.
And dont also specifies a subset of something (in English: of which):
J'ai deux chats dont un est noir et l'autre blanc. -- I have two cats, of which one is black and the other white.
Mary asked:View original
de laquelle
This was the phrase to complete: La forchette ________ tu te sers.... I chose "dont" but not "de laquelle" and was marked Nearly right. why is de laquelle correct? It seems not to be a direct object of te servir - "the fork which you use", but would rather translate as "the fork of which you use". Why isn't it " la forchette que tu te sers"?
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ShiviKwiziq community member
Can you suggest me the best french dictionary mobile app. I have downloaded many but most of them contain errors..
Asked 1 year ago
MichaelKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
I use Reverso. It it's just a web page (reverso.net) that runs in your browser rather than an App, but you can save it to your home page and access it like an App.
I also use Reverso Context for translating phrases and it is an App.
Shivi asked:View original
Can you suggest me the best french dictionary mobile app. I have downloaded many but most of them contain errors..
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ShiviKwiziq community member
I am confused about the genders of everything in French.. So please suggest me a good dictionary mobile app...
Merci!
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MintooKwiziq community member
The girl I'm thinking of is Isabelle." : La fille ________ je pense est Isabelle. Why is the answer "à qui" rather than "de qui/dont"
Asked 1 year ago
Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor
I've been meaning to ask but please let me know if Lawless French or KwizIQ has a lesson that lists many of the verbs that require à? It is not always obvious to me as a student. Many thanks.
BillKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
here's a good list that i've found
https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/verbs-with-prepositions/
Mintoo asked:View original
The girl I'm thinking of is Isabelle." : La fille ________ je pense est Isabelle. Why is the answer "à qui" rather than "de qui/dont"
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Hi everyone,
I don't think 'dont ' and 'duquel' are always interchangeable.
In the examples given in the lesson , the verbs all use de :
avoir envie de , avoir peur de, parler de, avoir besoin de ...
In thoses cases you can use any of the possibilities suggested .
Hope this helps!
KevinKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
I keep seeing material that talks about the importance of distinguishing between them:
Dont for a phrasal verb : Le livre dont je t'ai parlé
Duquel/etc. for prepositions : Le livre au-dessus duquel j'ai renversé mon café
Chris Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
The distinction is a pretty complicated matter and depends also on the register you are using. Here is a page which explains it and also offers a little test in the end to check your understanding: https://www.francaisfacile.com/exercices/exercice-francais-2/exercice-francais-105504.php
-- Chris (not a native speaker)
KevinKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Thank you, Chris! I did look at the Français Facile page the other day, which is why I was surprised to see the two possibiities described as equivalent.
Chris Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
I don't see them as interchangeably equivalent. They serve a similar purpose but in some instances you need one where you can't substitute the other. I believe the site to which I postet the link in my previous post explains it pretty well.
-- Chris (not a native speaker).
Kwiziq community member
I would like to see this question answered by one of the site teachers as the usage presented in this lesson does not seem consistent with that presented in sites such the link offered by Chris, nor with texts such as Grammaire progressive du Français.
Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor
It would be nice to be able to refer to a list of verbs that use prepositions.
BillKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Here's one! Not exhaustive of course, but has a lot of verbs.
https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/verbs-with-prepositions/
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ArashKwiziq community member
De quoi
When do we use de quoi. For example can we say
La fourchette de quoi tu te sers était à ma mère.
Asked 2 years ago
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Arash !
Actually, you never use "de quoi" in this context!
To refer to an object, you will always use "dont", and sometimes "de laquelle".
I hope that's helpful!
À bientôt !
MaxKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
It seems I use "de quoi" occasionally. I am not a native French speaker, but I speak French frequently and "de quoi" doesn't SOUND incorrect. When If ever would one use "de quoi"? Don't get me wrong - I'd be happy to jettison this expression.
CostaKwiziq community member
— De quoi as-tu envie ? D'un gâteau, ou d'une glace ?
— J'ai envie de dormir.
— Tu as de quoi vivre, au moins ?
— J'ai de quoi manger une fois par jour.
— J'ai envie de dormir.
— Tu as de quoi vivre, au moins ?
— J'ai de quoi manger une fois par jour.
Arash asked:View original
De quoi
When do we use de quoi. For example can we say
La fourchette de quoi tu te sers était à ma mère.
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ClareKwiziq community member
How do you know which of the appropriate options (de qui, dont, duquel, etc.) you should use?
Does it depend on whether you're speaking or writing? Is one used more frequently in conversation vs. when writing in French? Any additional explanation you can give would be greatly appreciated! I've always struggle with this and can't seem to understand these words enough to employ them. Thank you!
Asked 3 years ago
Ron Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
- 1) de qui (of/about whom), which can only apply to living things, usually people.
- 2) dont -- Use dont if the subordinate clause needs an object introduced by de/d'. Such clauses may indicate possession or they may contain verbs which are followed by the preposition de. Some of these verbs include 'parler de' (to talk about); 'avoir besoin de' (to need); 'avoir peur de' (to be afraid of); 'tenir de' (to take after).
- 3) duquel -- The contracted forms of de + quel (of/about which): duquel / de laquelle / desquels / desquelles
Note: these forms agree in gender and number with the object they refer to
Note: you can never have de or duquel or dont at the end of the clause like in English.
e.g. you cannot say La fille qui je parle de / La fille laquelle je parle de / La fille je parle dont (The girl I'm speaking of)
Preposition Masculine singular Masculine plural Feminine singular Feminine plural
lequel lesquels laquelle lesquelles
with à auquel auxquels à laquelle auxquelles
with de duquel desquels de laquelle desquelles
Ron Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Lequel, lesquels, laquelle, lesquelles are pronouns, i.e. they are used in place of a noun. They are used to ask the questions 'which one?' or 'which ones?' They assume the number and gender of the nouns they replace and contract with the prepositions à and de.
Preposition Masculine singular Masculine plural Feminine singular Feminine plural
lequel lesquels laquelle lesquelles
with à auquel auxquels à laquelle auxquelles
with de duquel desquels de laquelle desquelles
AllenKwiziq community member
Ron,
That is the best and most concise answer/description I have ever seen regarding this subject.
Magnifique.
Regards
Allen (AB)
Clare asked:View original
How do you know which of the appropriate options (de qui, dont, duquel, etc.) you should use?
Does it depend on whether you're speaking or writing? Is one used more frequently in conversation vs. when writing in French? Any additional explanation you can give would be greatly appreciated! I've always struggle with this and can't seem to understand these words enough to employ them. Thank you!
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